We’ve recently completed a publication that contains nearly 11 million records of U.S. Veterans gravesites that date back to the Revolutionary War. The U.S. Veterans’ Gravesites, ca. 1775-2019 collection compiles records from a variety of sources and cemeteries for soldiers and their dependents who were buried in Veterans Affairs (VA) National Cemeteries, state veterans’ cemeteries, or other military cemeteries.
Because we’ve cross-referenced multiple sources for this collection, the amount of information on each record varies. Some of the things you might learn from these records include:
- Name
- Birthdate
- Death date
- Interment Date
- Burial location
- Cemetery name and address
- Relationship to veteran
- Veteran service dates
- Military rank and branch
The records in this collection are organized alphabetically and provide genealogical clues for researching the veterans in your family. For example, using details found in the Veterans’ Gravesite collection we were able to tell the story of James Butterfield. Butterfield was born in Binghamton, New York, and tried to enlist in the Union Army at age 17. His father refused to allow this, but the determined boy went to work at a construction camp near Alexandria, VA. While there he was captured by Guerilla James Mosby. After being sent to Libby Prison and other Confederate POW camps, he ended up at Andersonville where he died of dysentery in 1864. He is buried at the Andersonville National Cemetery.
Using this collection, we also researched the final resting place for Eugene Calvin Cheatham, Jr., who served as a pilot in the 332nd Fighter Group – better known as the Tuskegee Airmen. After WWII, he went on to fly 150 missions as a combat pilot in the Korean War, eventually earning the rank of Lt. Colonel. Cheatham passed away in 2005 and is buried at Arlington National Cemetery.
Start researching your veteran today by exploring our U.S. Veterans’ Gravesites Collection on Fold3.com.
Is this publication available for purchase?
It is included when you sign up for a subscription. See details about it here https://www.fold3.com/choose-a-plan
What is the best way to find a photo of a military man, other than searching newspapers on microfilm ?
Yes, I would like a photo of a military veteran as well. I am unable to locate info on his parents and finally found his death record in Mexico on-line. Thank you. He was Army-Korean War- non-hostile death. Helicopter crash.
What is the availability for current subscribers?
Kudos to Fold3 for its removal of the long-standing image of Robert E. Lee from the masthead of this “official” blog (even if it also meant the tactful removal of Washington, Pershing and Eisenhower). I am glad that that the numerous comments posted here for the last several weeks had a salutary effect.
Robert E Lee was my relative and I’m deeply offended. You know nothing about his background trust me. A little tid bit for you so you look pretty stupid. Did you know although the man made his fair share of mistakes like anyone else Including his role in promoting peace and reunion after the Civil War. He spent the rest of his personal life repenting in ways you will never know. When is this BS going to end? I have the answer NEVER. Once again, dividing this country back to the time of Martin Luther King. That gentleman would probably be rolling in his grave if he saw what was going on today. People like you who don’t do your actual research, or maybe simply don’t have records like I do that was passed down for generations. Probably should be in a museum, but its a good thing that it remains in the hands of actual family members.
Excuse me but, isn’t this a website we visit to research historical facts and figures dealing with the military and our ancestors? How does removing images of key figures seem like a proper thing to do? Attempting to “whitewash” them away will not change the facts. All of these people had an effect on history and have descendants on both sides of the conflicts. Fold3 gives us the opportunity to find them. It is what it is. Let’s please remain civil and refrain from turning family research into something political.
Don…shame on anyone wanting to erase history. There is no room on this site for your political commentary.
Smigut, not all of Robert E. Lee’s descendants would agree with you. For example, The Rev. Robert W. Lee IV, a descendant of General Lee just this Tuesday at a House hearing cited his forebear’s testimony before Congress after the Civil War as evidence of the Confederate leader’s unfitness for commemoration. In 1866, Lee urged lawmakers not to allow Black suffrage. Black people of the time, the general testified before Congress, “cannot vote intelligently” and it would “lead to embarrassments.” Rev. Lee, along with many others, including numerous Black historians, urged Congress to remove a statue of Lee erected this century at the battlefield of Antietam.
In any event, General Mark A. Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the administration’s senior military advisor, just two weeks ago called for “taking a hard look” at changing the names of ten Army bases — including Fort Lee — honoring Confederate officers who had fought against the Union during the Civil War. General Milley told Congress, while under oath, “There is no place in our armed forces for manifestations, or symbols of racism, bias or discrimination.”
As the general explained at the Congressional hearing, “The Confederacy, the American Civil War, was fought, and it was an act of rebellion. . . . It was an act of treason, at the time, against the Union, against the Stars and Stripes, against the U.S. Constitution. Those officers turned their back on their oath.”
Indeed, just this week, in approval of General Milley’s testimony, both the House and Senate passed by a bipartisan veto-proof vote to rename all military installations bearing the names of Confederate officers, including Fort Lee in Virginia. Even the Republican-controlled Senate voted 86-14 on the legislation (NDAA of 2021).
I hope to see the bases renamed — and the removal of all other divisive Confederate symbols on military installations that are an affront to my Black comrades in arms— in the next year or so. I applaud Fold3 for joining with the military and Congress in supporting ALL our troops.
Joyce and Harold, “erasing history” is a political talking point or bumper sticker, not a real thing. Removing a common image of Lee from a masthead or moving a statue to another location erases nothing. Such acts are not changing or erasing any history — which is beyond the powers of mere mortals to go back in time, in any event — nor does it at all eliminate or detract from what’s readily available in any library or online, even here on Fold3. The numerous anachronistic hagiographies written in praise of a mythical Robert E. Lee may still be read by you and others, including Smigut, as often as desired.
With regard to why this topic even came up here, I direct you to numerous comments made in response to the prior Fold3 post concerning the USS Indianapolis, at a time when Robert E. Lee’s image still loomed over a photo of the Indy, which sailed 75 years after the Civil War with a segregated crew, one of whom was the first African American to be awarded the Navy Cross. I take some encouragement from Fold3 rectifying the matter, as well as the recent vote of Congress to remove all vestiges of those who would have kept my neighbors in abject bondage. Still, I realize that the roots of the Civil War stubbornly persist, as manifested by some of the comments posted here.
Removing photos and other historical memorials is no different than what the Taliban did in Afghanistan and DAESH in Iraq & Syria.
So how far down this rabbit hole do I have to go before I see the actual list of US Veterans gravesites, ca 1775 to 2019 without having to click on the war, the country, the state, etc.? I always end up where I started. I enter the name and get absolutely nothing for WWII but diaries and regiments. I have no idea where this person served, or when. I just want to know where he is buried.
Agreed.
Regarding Lee, in those times the soldier’s loyalty was to their home, their state, not to the federal government. I suggest doing some research so that you can understand that those soldiers were fighting against what they considered invaders of their homeland. For the politicians, secession was about fear of abolition of slavery. But that is not why the soldiers were fighting and dying.
It’s disturbing to see monuments to those who fought and died removed or destroyed, just because they fought in the civil war or owned slaves. It’s wrong to erase history just because someone is offended by it.
What if someone is offended by former slave owner and traitor to the British Crown named George Washington? Should his monuments also be destroyed?
Dry, once again, “erasing history” is a political talking point or bumper sticker, not a real thing. Removing a common image of Lee from a masthead (as thankfully just occurred here by Fold3) or moving a Jim Crow-era statue (seen by many of our fellow Americans as a physical manifestation of a racist trope) to another location erases nothing. Such acts are not changing or erasing any history — which is beyond the powers of mere mortals to go back in time, in any event — nor does it at all eliminate or detract from what’s readily available to all in any library or online or here on Fold3.
I do agree though, that the reasons for the “common soldier” fighting a prolonged war — any war — are not always what they appear to be at first blush. In this regard, I direct you to “For Cause and Comrades,” by Pulitzer Prize-winner James McPherson, a favorite of mine. See: https://www.amazon.com/Cause-Comrades-Why-Fought-Civil/dp/0195124995
And, of course, the complicated issue of slave-owning Founding Fathers is fraught with nuance and perspective. That discussion should continue; the process of reasoned contemplation itself is salutary. The Founding Fathers at least created a new independent republic, resulting in a Constitution that carried within it the seeds of “freedom for all.” However, as General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told Congress some two weeks ago, “The Confederacy, the American Civil War, was fought, and it was an act of rebellion. . . . It was an act of treason, at the time, against the Union, against the Stars and Stripes, against the U.S. Constitution. Those officers turned their back on their oath.” For me, a retired Army officer, General Milley distilled the reason why Confederate officers should have no place of public honor. (I have no problem with descendants privately honoring their own ancestors.)
My apologies, slip of the finger. I meant “Dru,” not “Dry” at the beginning of my preceding comment.
How do you check to see if a known Rev War Vet is properly listed?
Looking forward to answers to all the great questions. I also find the search for specific answers difficult without already knowing details.
Very difficult to use. I have worked in Old and New Greencastle cemeteries in Dayton. Ohio that have hundreds of vets was unable to find any with this search. Fold3’s search engine has always been needlessly difficult.
Phillip Brandt, I knew right away that there were going to be complaints like yours. Fold3 only included those in military cemeteries. Those buried in any other cemetery will not be in this research. So, even if a vet was buried in a veteran portion they won’t be included. Another issue will be they might have missed individuals in a project this large.
I agree with several of the posts above. I checked on six of our veterans in our family from the Revolutionary War to Vietnam and no records.
Some included:
David Zeh – Rev War
Dale Zhe – WWIi
Arden Zhe – Vietnam
Fredrick Zhe – Civil War
James Myren – WWII
Not a very useful site at this time.
I agree, I dread having to look something up in the website it’s very frustrating. Not user friendly at all. Ancestry revamped find a grave, I think if we are a squeaky wheel long enough they will revamp fold3.
I found only one record of both my step fathers in fold3. No records of WWII deployments…army/navy. Not very good site at all.
Runtrick, most of the Army’s WWII consolidated personnel files were destroyed by a St. Louis fire in 1973, and thus were not available for scanning by the time digital services such as Ancestry and Fold3 were created years later. Although some isolated and specialized federal military Army records (e.g., original enlistment, hospital admissions, MIA/KIA records, POW status, missing aircraft records, officer registers, et al.), as well as state records (e.g., state compensation files for wartime federal service, state guard files, et al.) are occasionally available on Fold3 or Ancestry, most often nothing is readily available that would identify an ancestor’s WWII unit or service details. I often can find more about a Civil War veteran than a WWII veteran.
After completing exhaustive Google searches and trying historical newspaper archives such as newspapers.com for your step-fathers, I suggest using the online federal NARA form (SF-180). It is relatively easy and should only take a few minutes to complete a request.
Here is a link to get you started:
https://www.archives.gov/personnel-records-center/ompf-access
And try clicking on this hot link at the foregoing linked page:
“Request Records Online with eVetRecs”
Although it could be some months before you receive a response, I have often been successful in at least identifying a veteran’s unit by filing such a request. You never know what random records will turn up. At one time, a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request could also be filed; however, that may have been folded into the NARA service.
Good luck!
I agree with Smigut!
To Don:
Removing images and statues is only the beginning of erasing our history, my friend. Schools have greatly reduced or even eliminated the teaching of our American history. Do you not call that erasing our history?
When I was in grad school, I had several professors that were totally anti-American and if you wanted an A you had to write your papers espousing their liberal viewpoints. They thought they were so much better than their students but I played the game and was the only member of my class to graduate with a 4.0 GPA.
Still chuckling on my way to the bank!
I’d like to pose a question to all who have strong opinions on the Civil War: If we hadn’t fought the Revolutionary War, would we still be living under the King/Queen? It was all so wonderful that we wanted to secede from England, so why was it so wrong if some US States wanted to secede from the Union?
I’m a proud descendent of George Dixon, the LT. who commanded the Hunley during the Civil War. I don’t blog and rarely comment on web discussion of any type but I’m fed up with Antifa and all of the George Soros led morons who want to burn the US down. Should that happen, I will be anxious to see how much they’d like living under another Hitler.
I agree with so many about this website and how much time I have to spend getting even the tiniest amount of information. My plan is to wrap up my family tree and exit stage left, cancel my subscription, and save myself $47 a month.
ALL Lives Matter
Connie, again, “erasing history” is a political talking point or bumper sticker, not a real thing. Removing a common image of Lee from a masthead or moving a statue to another location, or even varying the content of a history course, erases nothing. Such acts are not actually changing or erasing any history — which, as I said, is beyond the powers of mere mortals to go back in time — nor does it at all eliminate or detract from what’s readily and freely available in any library or online, even here on Fold3. We all have access to resources unimaginable only a few years ago, including primary sources. And TV, in all its modern forms, is awash in history programs. I am sure that most of what you know (or think you know) — just like me — was learned after your “formal education.” Indeed, your comments imply as much.
I cannot speak to whatever you have to say anecdotally about the particular courses you took. Of course, the content of American history courses varies widely from school to school, college to college, state to state, and even from time to time. The quality of the courses is often no better or worse than the particular teacher. The academic surveys that periodically show up in the mass media are instructive; many Americans believe the British fought at Gettysburg, for example . . . . Such ignorance transcends any particular world view or where one resides on a political spectrum.
After nine years of university classes and four degrees, I taught post-graduate students for some years. The very best ones thought for themselves, irrespective of what I said in class. They usually received the highest grades.
Finally, my relatives died under Hitler. I am greatly offended to the depths of my soul by his image or a swastika, whether it is intended to be invidious or not. I can only imagine how Black Americans perceive Confederate images, but I speculate they would often have a similar effect on them. Why is it so hard to be sensitive to their feelings, and demonstrate some compassion and grace towards those who have suffered 400 years of institutionalized racism?
I agree with you Connie~ Without the history of our great nation, we wouldn’t have the United States of America!
Fortunate, then, that the Secretary of Defense, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the US Senate and the House of Representatives all agree with me.
Oh, and to bring it full circle, fortunate that Fold3 and Ancestry.com apparently also agree with me . . . .
I’m an official public historian. A few years ago I conducted a survey. I asked people passing by or hanging out near statues In three of New York city’s boroughs if they knew who the statue was or anything about the person. Of the 100+ people I asked, no one could answer my questions.
Thanks, Thomas. I am not surprised. Some of those New York monuments are also pretty obscure at this point in history. (I worked in NYC for more than three decades.) In any event, as I said, many Americans think the British fought at Gettysburg. . . . But to those who are better informed (or wish to be) or are “thought leaders” among their peers (or wish to be), public monuments raise important issues, as seen from the many comments posted here. They are also a means for one generation to speak to later (unborn) generations regarding values and principles. They are a physical manifestation of how they wish to be remembered.
I agree with you 100%. My US history teacher was more interested in doing “values clarification” exercises. That was in 1977. I remember my mom confronted her about it.
Nobody is actually offended to the point that they want statues removed. It is just another way to tear hell out of this great country. All my relatives were Union and had no slaves, but I respect those that fought and died for the Confederate cause. It is part of our history. And for those that don’t know it, removing statues and flags changes nothing that happened 150 years ago. I feel that some idiots feel that this is like ‘Back to the Future” and they can change the fact that people in this country owned slaves. Tough shit that it happened but it did.
I do have ancestors who fought for the South, and Im a Gold Star brother and a Veteran myself. Numerous family members did own slaves. I have their wills where they left them to spouses and children and in one case said sell them for education.
The Confederacy was about slavery. Confederate States VP Alexander Stephens, a brother of my great great grandfather who fought with a GA infantry under Benning from 1861 to 1865 surfing a capture and imprisonment, parole and fighting again to see the surrender at Appomattox while on the same day he was captured at Gettysburg, and other great great grandfather was captured at Vicksburg but because of his rank (Colonel) he was pardoned on his word.
Anyway I say all this because I do value and know my family but they took up arms against the USA. Statues not to their leadership or gallantry should come down because they were for the wrong cause.
I read recently in Robert E Lee’s letters that he after the war said he followed his wife’s step grandfather George Washington’s example of disavowing England and the Monarchy for his home land Virginia. He saw Geo Washington has many then did.
The statues to those who took up arms when not in a war park should come down.
For many years I was in denial on this but as I get wiser with years and understanding, the impact of slavery is becoming more of a problem that we allowed it to exist.
Read the poetry of Wordsworth or Coleridge or persons with knowledge in other countries int he late 18th and early 19th century: they all did not know how America with all its potential could allow this barbarity to exist.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments, Paul. As some great men have observed, “The arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice.” The recent actions of my senior fellow officers at the Pentagon and of a bipartisan Congress in calling for the removal of the names of Confederate generals — as well as other “racist symbols,” to quote General Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff — buttresses my faith in a moral universe. True, there may be anomalies in the arc — as well demonstrated here by some of the commenters — but better to be on the right side of history now, than being viewed as part of the problem by my descendants, born and unborn.
Isn’t this part of my subscription through Ancestry already?
I agree. I thought it was part of the package subscription I purchased.
How can I make sure that my beloved father, grandfather, and uncles are included?
Tuskegee Airmen are my heroes!
Indeed, they are, Dr. Obleton. And their heroism is even more remarkable considering the segregated environment in which they served.
There is a through line of heroism in combat by Black Americans starting at least as far back as Crispsus Attucks, widely regarded as the first American killed in the American Revolution. During the Civil War, some 200,000 men of color volunteered to serve the Union cause in uniform. President Lincoln said that the service of these men during the final years of the conflict was instrumental in the victory achieved against those who would see their brothers and sisters in abject bondage.
I stand in awe at the service of the men of the United States Colored Troops (USCT), who preceded me in my uniformed service to the nation. The Confederate army of Robert E. Lee was under orders to either return to slavery or hang USCT members taken prisoner. Under the rules of modern warfare, that was a capital war crime (see, e.g. 18 USC Sec. 2441). Nevertheless, hundreds of thousands of men volunteered, knowing full well of that heinous order. Amazing . . . .
I have never commented before but feel compelled to make 2 statements.
1. If the statement made by Don that many Americans believe that the British fought at Gettysburg is true, that proves that our schools are not teaching American history properly.
2. Where is all the outrage about current human trafficking and slavery(ex. China)? Why not deal with current issues and help improve the world.
Donna, I essentially agree with both your comments:
1. As I said, there is a wide variance in the quality of education received in America, much (but certainly not entirely) attributable to geographic location and racial inequality, in large measure due to the methods of funding schools and colleges (a frequently litigated issue for some decades). I also note as a backdrop for the current landscape of education that more than four years ago our current president told supporters, “I love the poorly educated.” (Nevada, February 24, 2016)
2. Again, I agree. I recently even attended — just before the arrival on our shores of the novel coronavirus — a course titled “Modern Slavery and Human Trafficking” offered by the Foreign Policy Association. However, institutional racism in America is also a current issue of great immediacy, which — among many other harms — directly affects the quality of education in America, per your first comment.
I was able to find my Dad’s listing very quickly. The cemetery listing showed his home town, not the town where the cemetery is. I’m glad for the opportunity to correct it.
Since many are saying it was difficult and they didn’t find whom they were looking for, it made me wonder if there has to be a memorial already for the grave info to be found.
So it appears that only those buried in National Cemeteries are listed. Why don’t you publish or post those veterans buried in regular cemeteries. My father and uncles are buried in family plots with military markers. Yet they are not listed. What do you use for your sources?
The Bolshevik Revolution destroyed the country of Russia to create the U.S.S.R. The same thing is happening here and now. Participate in cultural revision and you are helping to make it happen. They had a name for you folks, ” Useful Idiots”.
As I typed my last comment, I was looking at one of the many commendations, medals and awards hanging on my wall (along with original, autographed photographs of Generals Lee and Grant). It was an official certificate saying that “the people of this Nation are forever grateful” to me for “promoting peace and stability for this Nation” in bringing the Cold War to an end upon the fall of the Soviet Union. It was signed by the then-Secretary of Defense. I guess he didn’t mean “all” the people of this Nation are forever grateful. I will pencil in a footnote reading, “except Lee and Gary, et al.”
Keep fighting for the Cultural Revklution, Don.
You will know you have succeeded when there is a power shift accomplished through mass murder of the Old Guard.
Then while you are still smug in your victory the New Guard will round up your kind and murder you too. They always do.
As I was saying . . . when I typed my last comment, I was looking at one of the many commendations, medals and awards hanging on my wall (along with original, autographed photographs of Generals Lee and Grant). It was an official certificate saying that “the people of this Nation are forever grateful” to me for “promoting peace and stability for this Nation” in bringing the Cold War to an end upon the fall of the Soviet Union. It was signed by the then-Secretary of Defense. I guess he didn’t mean “all” the people of this Nation are forever grateful. I will pencil in a footnote reading, “except Lee and Gary, et al.”
And don’t forget that mask!
I wouldn’t necassarily call it erasing history. But it is repeating it. Taking a statue away does nothing but divide us as a nation.
Christopher, there is indeed some truth in what you say, as evidenced by the comments here. However, leaving Jim Crow-era, “racist symbols” — per General Milley, et al. — in place are also dividing the Nation. So what to do? I come down in favor of the compassionate and gracious thing to do — partial reparations, perhaps? — in favor of those who have suffered under institutional racism in this country for 400 years.
Today, Civil Rights icon John Lewis is being laid to rest, passing over the Edmund Pettus Bridge. When he crossed that bridge more than a half century ago, he was beaten by Alabama state troopers. This morning, he was rendered a salute of honor by the Alabama state troopers on that same bridge. “The arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice.”
So although Congressman Lewis sacrificed his blood before a divided nation many years ago, he did so in the belief — if not knowledge — that it was “good trouble.” I agree with him and all those who now cry out for racial justice, including rectifying some of the prior mistakes and aggressions, such as relocating public statues erected in furtherance of Jim Crow, well after the Civil War. Even Robert E. Lee proclaimed that such statues should not be built. But those who followed his every command during the Civil War, defied him in death.
As also now roundly recognized by the Pentagon — where I served for more than six years — it is unseemly and inappropriate to publicly honor those who fought against the Constitution and defied the same officer’s oath I took. The Confederate officers should have honored that oath, in good times and in bad, just as I did during wars with which I did not necessarily agree. I would have expected of Robert E. Lee and his fellow Confederates no less loyalty and allegiance to the United States of America than I gave.
Now knowing that fold3 is a political forum. I will not be using there services.
Odd that you proclaim that after you yourself made an overtly political statement on Fold3, and even requested a response in kind here. Perhaps you just object to my response; if so, don’t blame Fold3.
Of course, to use “there [sic] services” you need not read or post on their blog. I have been a user of Fold3 since it was called “Footnote.” I have gone years without accessing the blog. However, the recent blog post about the USS Indianapolis piqued my interest. It was then that I discovered the image of Lee (rather than Grant) among Washington, Pershing and Eisenhower. Nor was I even the first to observe and question that oddity. After that, I merely responded to anyone addressing me, which I thought was the fair thing to do.
By the way, do you also cancel your email service when you receive political email? Do you cancel your phone service when you receive political solicitations? Do you cancel your TV/streaming subscriptions when you hear something political? I assume not. You just avoid any content you wish not to see or hear. Then why blame Fold3 for what others may post on their ancillary blog, at least if you find Find3 otherwise useful? A serious researcher consults all useful tools and resources available.
Fold3 is just a tool, another resource for information. Like all such resources, one needs to recognize what it offers, as well as its limitations. It is an excellent resource for Civil War materials, less so perhaps for WWII (through little fault of its own). Nevertheless, it will sometimes provide new and revealing, even startling, insights, which is why I am a longtime subscriber.
Christopher, let me correct one thing I said in my preceding comment. You did not specifically request a response; instead, I thought your comment required one.
Christopher, blame it on Covid and the lockdown. Some people just can’t make it through a day without attention and adoration. What I don’t understand is why isn’t fold3 stopping this? Most of us come to these sites to work on our ancestry and escape a little. We don’t come here for a competition about whose smarter and knows more.
It makes no sense to me that a sentence that says “only people buried in military cemeteries are included in Fold3” is not part of the introduction, or did I miss it? It would seem a bit of a misrepresentation to leave it out.
Sorry, but this feature doesn’t seem to be working well – while searching for a particular ancestor, I found that, in addition to several instances of multiple redundant listings for the same person, I also came across more than one anachronism, such as the following :
Conflict:
Vietnam
Conflict Period:
US Revolutionary War
And I never did find my ancestor in these listings, although I did locate his records in other Fold3 searches.
I was wondering ordering why I received this email? Did u discover the gravesie of Captain Saturnino Baca who served in the Civil War in New Mexico,?
Here is his gravesite: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/14457437
Not very accurate. While I did find my grandfather from 1898 listed under the Spanish-American War, I didn’t find my father who served in both World War II and the Korean War.
DON, DON, DON, ……….CHILL! How do I block you and your comments on this site?
Dave, report him. His rants have no place on this site.
I have read that many of the Confederate statues here in the south were erected decades after the Civil War by the Daughters of the Confederacy, who were staunch Ku Klux Klan supporters. As such, the whole purpose of the statues was to push the romanticized version of the mythical “Lost Cause”, and to remind the black population of their “true place” in society, at the white man’s feet. If this is true, then I can see why the statues are so hurtful to people. It comes down to the question, “Is that piece of concrete or stone more important than actual people?”
It is also my understanding that the German people tried to hide the facts about the Third Reich from their children. The children found out anyway. and the Germans learned first-hand that it is only when you face the facts, face your mistakes, that you can finally heal and move on. (I believe the swastika is completely outlawed, however,)
Your understanding of the purpose of those statues is correct, Cynthia. They were mostly built during the period of Jim Crow, at a time when there were frequent lynchings of Black Americans and other such atrocities. The statues, in large measure, served the primary purpose — arguably not the sole purpose, perhaps — of terrorizing African Americans into remaining in “their true place” in the Southern social structure. Although many in this forum will continue to deny it — some in vile and repugnant, if not ignorant, terms — that is the vast consensus of the overwhelming majority of numerous credible academic historians who have studied the history of the statues.
I have frequently traveled throughout Germany and elsewhere in Europe for the past half century, sometimes representing DOD, sometimes as a tourist. In contrast to Confederate officers who took up arms to defend the right to keep human beings in abject slavery — resulting in the deaths of at least 600,000 Americans — I have seen no public statues to Hitler, or the likes of Himmler and Goring, even though the latter was also a well-decorated ace fighter pilot. They were all war criminals, nevertheless.
As to your last point, Germany and other European nations have let vestiges of the Third Reich — built during, but not after, WWII — remain to teach future generations of the moral bankruptcy of a Germany that rose up against its own citizens (such as Jews and Blacks), as well as against other countries (such as the United States of America).
Those remaining vestiges are the concentration camps, built primarily for the purpose of exterminating human beings who did not fit into an acceptable place in German society. I have visited Auschwitz. Unlike the Southern statues and other such public Confederate manifestations, there is nothing at Auschwitz honoring or commemorating those responsible for the atrocities performed there. Instead, these WWII camps were left standing for the SOLE purpose of proclaiming that the Third Reich was evil and its values should never be embraced again. Appropriate historical context is also provided at the camps.
Finally, thank you for your service, Cynthia!
my father was in the US Army his name is Hubert Melvin Parker and I want to know what ranking he was in and the World War II and I need this information please
Where was he born and/or died?
Don,
Referencing one of your previous comments substantiates my claim that US History has been revised over the years. Your comment was as follows:
“As I typed my last comment, I was looking at one of the many commendations, medals and awards hanging on my wall (along with original, autographed photographs of Generals Lee and Grant). It was an official certificate saying that “the people of this Nation are forever grateful” to me for “promoting peace and stability for this Nation” in bringing the Cold War to an end upon the fall of the Soviet Union. It was signed by the then-Secretary of Defense.”
Well, bless your heart, Don! All these years, while I thought Reagan stopped the cold war, it was actually you all along. Kudos to you. What a trooper you must have been in your day.
By the way, are you employed by ancestry.com?
Side note to Cynthia: Thank you for your service.
Connie, yes, it was me — among other things, I spent 6 years in the Pentagon during those years as an intelligence officer, for which I was decorated — AS WELL AS all the other service members and federal employees who served during the Cold War, many of whom received similar awards, which was authorized by Congress in 1998 using the very language you now disparage. You are disrespecting ALL of their service, not just mine, in order to dish out pap and snark.
Connie, because you disrespected all those men and women whose honorable and faithful service brought about the end of the Cold War, I reproduce here a verbatim statement released by Republican Congressman Rick Lazio (a supporter of Ronald Reagan) — one of the sponsors of the Congressional bill authorizing the award — at the time of its creation:
“There was no ticker tape parade, yet the people who represented our country’s military during this period are responsible for a huge victory over the Soviet Union that saved mankind from nuclear holocaust. They earned and deserve America’s recognition.”
I should add that you also quoted my prior statement out of context. I mentioned the foregoing award as a partial response to comments by Lee and Gary accusing me of being a “Commie” and “useful idiot.” I now see that some of those comments were so vile and repugnant, that Fold3 took what may be an unprecedented step in deleting them from this forum.
And in suggesting that President Reagan alone ended the Cold War, you bring to mind a more current leader who says he “alone can fix” all of the Nation’s problems.
Cynthia, I will add you to Lee and Gary in the footnote on my award, making it clear that you are not among those in the Nation grateful for our service during the Cold War. Your thanks to Cynthia rings hollow. By the way, in which branch did you serve?
My preceding comment should have begun with “Connie,” not Cynthia.
To the person who calls himself “Don”:
People/subscribers come to this site to work on their ancestry. They do not come here to be berated or enlightened by some stranger who is just so incredibly smart and knows everything that he can’t help himself from bragging about it and letting you know you are wrong and he is right (correct).
ISN’T THAT WHAT TWITTER IS FOR?
People pay for this subscription and should not be subjected to this.
Sorry you feel that way, Lexie. Nearly every comment I have made has been in response to some issue raised by others (including your comment). If you feel I having nothing to contribute, it is easy enough to simply ignore my comments, as I ignore many of the comments posted here. I assume you can do the same.
I have zero social media accounts, including Twitter. I do not find them helpful or useful. And I learned at the Pentagon how they may be misused and manipulated, such as interfering with our elections by inappropriately aiding candidates. (Read the Mueller report, for example.)
Connie accused me of being an employee of Ancestry; you accuse me of interfering with Ancestry . . . .
I pay $389 per year for my Ancestry subscriptions, including the use of this blog. I also have been assisting people with their research here. Is there anything I can help you with? I would be glad to, if that’s truly your concern. I mean it . . . .
I notice you are only objecting to me, not others who posted obscene, ad hominem attacks from the political right. Fold3 did remove those comments, without my asking.
Lexie, please stay safe and wear a mask!
Don
July 24, 2020 at 6:39 pm
“Kudos to Fold3 for its removal of the long-standing image of Robert E. Lee from the masthead of this “official” blog (even if it also meant the tactful removal of Washington, Pershing and Eisenhower). I am glad that that the numerous comments posted here for the last several weeks had a salutary effect.”
——————————-
Don, this was your first comment in this thread. It was initiated by you and not in response to anyone. Smigut responded to your comment and that started it.
No one has accused you of anything, but we really would like you to take your accomplishments to a blog/site that would be much more compatible with your interests and background. This is not it.
By the way: I do not consider wearing a mask patriotic. I wear a mask to keep myself and others as safe as a mask will do. What I do consider patriotic is standing for our National Anthem and for our Flag and for our United States of America.
Lexie, you are correct about the first two-sentence comment. That is why I was careful to say “NEARLY every comment I made.” However, even that first comment on THIS page was in direct response to a substantial , but unnoticed, action that Fold3 had taken only hours before I posted the comment, which I thought should be brought to the attention of the users here. And the issue of Lee’s image inappropriately appearing on this blog was first raised not by me, but others on this blog under the story of the USS Indianapolis. Since people often don’t return to previous blog stories after they read them, I wanted to apprise those having an interest of what just happened.
And thank you for wearing a mask for whatever reason, Lexie. I believe care for our fellow Americans is also a manifestation of patriotism, as some of our leaders have recently noted.
Here is the free link to our PBS program featuring 22 official US military cemeteries overseas in 8 different countries, holding the graves of 125,000 servicemen and women from WWI and WWII (after WWII, all found bodies were brought home.) These graves represent 40% of the dead, whose families chose to leave them where they fell, beside comrades, in the lands they died to liberate. If found worthy, please share. https://www.pbs.org/video/hallowed-grounds-full-episode/
Don what you did at the time was your job. You got awards but you weren’t recognized by the general public. So what. I recall that Vietnam vets were the ones who didn’t get the recognition they deserved and they sacrificed more than any bureaucrat sitting behind a desk did. I resent that a handful of punks is destroying the history of this great country. The changes aren’t just the the statues being destroyed but that history is being altered in the textbooks and schools. Your comments do not belong on this site so why don’t you take your arrogant self somewhere else.
With Dave’s and Lexie’s indulgence, I’ll respond to Bonita’s comment directed specifically to me.
I am a Vietnam vet, having served 28 years in uniformed service. I worked on the design and installation of secure, tactical communications systems used there. I also served in a civilian capacity for DOD.
I have previously addressed your other semi-substantive assertions. And I’ll pass on your ad hominem attacks.
In any event, be patriotic, wear a mask!
WOW! What a puffed up bag of wind, Mr. Don. I am surprised your head can fit through a door way. Here are a few things everyone needs to remember. 1. The side that wins the war is the side that gets to write the history books. 2. There were many Black Slave Owners in the south. Do some research and check census records. They have not erased the census records yet though I suppose some day they might try. 3. Who were the people who went to pick up the Black Slaves from Africa. Well it was the blameless Northern ship captains from Boston. How could that be, I thought it was only those bad guys from the wicked south. 4. The Black Slaves were being sold to the ship’s captains by there own Black Africans. 2 tribes would fight in Africa. The winning tribe would take the tribe that lost to the docks to be loaded, so if any one needs to apologize for sending them off to slavery it is there OWN people. Again do your research. One other thing all you that are on this thread should know about this egotistical maniac , LIBERALS ARE TOLERANT: unless your opinion differs from theirs. Then you’re a sexist, racist, homophobic redneck, unbred, bible thumping, zenophobic nascar-loving, gun-toting, America-loving bigot. From what I have read about this web site you couldn’t pay me to join, and I think a lot of you people on here know it stinks!!!!!
Emma, welcome to the discussion. I’m glad you found it of some interest and thought-provoking. I’ll address your points seriatim . . . .
1. You begin with the often-cited aphorism that the winner gets to write the history. However, that has not been applicable to the American Civil War. An entire industry has existed since Reconstruction around the sympathetic histories and memoirs of the Confederacy and its leaders, both military and civilian. Jefferson Davis published his 1500-page “The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government” in 1881. Most of the senior Confederate generals told their side of the story at great length — with the notable exception of Robert E. Lee. (He was so diminished by the war that he refused, just as he opposed the erection of Confederate monuments.) I own some 1000 books concerning the Civil War. Many of my shelves are filled with the histories and memoirs written by these Confederate generals and their aides, as well as obedient Southerners who came after them.
Indeed, the Confederacy lost the war on the battlefield but for the longest time won the war over memory. Yale Professor David Blight, recent winner of the Pulitzer Price for his book on Frederick Douglass, wrote an excellent book on the subject. See: https://www.amazon.com/Race-Reunion-Civil-American-Memory/dp/0674008197
In any event, the Southern, romanticized view of the Civil War — including the mythical “Lost Cause” and idyllic white-centric slave-plantation life — has long captured the country’s imagination. Much of America learns its “history” from movies. From D. W. Griffith’s “Birth of a Nation” (1915) to Selznick’s “Gone with the Wind” (1939), the American public had mostly been exposed to, in effect, Southern propaganda. It has only been in the last few decades that a cinematic balance has begun to be achieved. This may have started with the widely viewed “Glory” (1989); although not entirely accurate, it is one of my favorites. With its lush cinematography and sound track, I can watch the climactic last 20 minutes over and over. (As many times as I watch it, the 54th never does quite take Wagner, however.)
Of course, the Southern viewpoint has also been well publicized in modern times through popular histories. The non-footnoted tales of quasi-historian Shelby Foote — who was court-martialed and thrown out of the Army during WWII for falsifying documents — provides a good example.
[CONTINUED]
2. As to your remaining historical assertions — although interesting — they are merely unavailing examples of “Whataboutism,” a rhetorical device fully developed by the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and now widely used, for example, by Russia and our other adversaries in their campaigns to interfere with our democratic institutions.
For example, to argue the fact that some Jewish Kapos aided the Third Reich to exterminate Jews in no way diminishes the Third Reich’s culpability for its own atrocities. Or that some Jewish train engineers in Poland ran the cattle cars packed with Jews to the gates of Auschwitz in no way diminishes the culpability of the SS for what happened there after arrival. Or that some intellectuals or members of a particular ethnic group may have profited in some way from the holocaust does not relieve the Third Reich of full responsibility for the extermination of many thousands of intellectuals or members of that ethnic group. Etc. I’m sure you get the point.
Similarly, the fact that some Blacks were perhaps involved in an aspect of the slave trade at some point in time in no way exculpates the Confederacy and its leadership for their own abhorrent maintenance of slaves, especially at a time when most Western nations had long abandoned the crime against humanity.
3. I do have some sympathy for your third point about Northern involvement in the slave trade — albeit, mostly well before the Civil War — or that some Northerners also profited in some way off the trade. However, that aspect is now finally undergoing scrutiny, especially as it may relate to institutional racism. Hardly a day now goes by where some sort of reckoning isn’t being requested or actually occurring, be it at a university or a corporation or a government entity having roots deeply embedded in antebellum America. I would assume you would like to see a reckoning meted out both in the North and in the South.
4. As to your remaining rhetorical flourishes and personal attacks, I will follow the dictum of Michelle Obama, “When they go low, you go high.”
Emma, stay safe and please where a mask. It’s the kind thing to do.
While I can sympathize with people finding the website difficult to use, and have not found much information on many of my own relatives, I did find a plethora of information on my great-great grandfather that I could find nowhere else, including documents written in his own hand.
When I began researching him, I did not even have his correct middle name. The family had it wrong. All I had to start with was a tragic love story handed down verbally.
He died in an accident leaving his first child, my great grandmother, 6 months in the womb. She was named Charlie after him. It is difficult to research a person with very few progeny, and none that he raised.
My ancestor was a dedicated Confederate soldier and as a Captain, the U.S. Army had extensive intelligence records on him that I found on this site.
I doubt I could have found those records elsewhere because I would not have imagined they exist.
A month after the Harper’s Ferry attack, my ancestor quit the U.S. Naval Academy on the eve of graduation and declared his loyalty to the South. After Tennessee seceded, he enlisted with the first regiment to form in TN, and fought in 15 major battles, finally surrendering at the end of the war. Most of the other officers were KIA and he had spent some time in a hospital also.
Regardless of our own aversion to the concept of slavery, was that all he was fighting for? I have to think something much larger was driving him to fight in that war till the bitter end when many of those who survived the 40% casualties at Shiloh alone quit fighting and went home. Indeed, he was promoted to Captain because his superior officers were KIA. He was one of the few officers who survived the war. He was wounded in action but retuned after being hospitalized.
What I admire about him, right or wrong, is his absolute refusal to quit in the absolute worst of circumstances.
My response to those who would have his history erased is that I will never truly understand myself until I understand the history of my ancestors. I grew up in the West and have not had the opportunity to visit the South. I was raised with Yankee values and I hope someday to identify the battles where my Union and Confederate ancestors faced off.
The question I have for those who would rewrite history or erase the memory of people our modern culture considers sinful is, how would we fare if they had been given the opportunity to judge us by their own set of moral standards? Let the person who is without sin pull down the next statue.
Cindy, I agree that the reasons for the “common soldier” fighting a prolonged war — any war — are not always what they appear to be at first blush. In this regard, I direct you to “For Cause and Comrades,” by Pulitzer Prize-winner James McPherson, a favorite of mine. See: https://www.amazon.com/Cause-Comrades-Why-Fought-Civil/dp/0195124995
With all due respect, I disagree with your concerns about so-called “erasing history.” However, I have addressed that here several times before, so I won’t repeat it.
And, yes, Fold3 is an excellent source for Civil War-era material. It is the main reason I maintain my subscription.
Stay safe and please wear a mask!
Are all the Northern Statues place on Northern Courthouses and parks during the same time frame also Jim Crow? I look at Gen Custer’s in Monroe Mich (1920) as prime example. Speaking of which, where’s the cry to remove his and the likes of Sherman and the Sheridans. They committed genocide against a whole people. Remember Sherman’s 2nd most infamous quote, “ The only good Indian, is a dead Indian!” Some are quick to besmirch the South, but can’t see the forest for the trees when it comes theirs. American History on the whole is not very pretty, but it’s our history. If you start picking and choosing you might as well start taking all statues down as someone can/will find fault with each and every one of them.
Henry, “The only good Indian . . .” quote is usually attributed not to Sherman, but to Sheridan, who was indeed a nasty guy in that regard, just like Andrew Jackson and his abhorrent forced march of the Cherokees to Oklahoma. The genocide against the American Indian Tribes is indeed worthy of a modern-day reckoning. In that regard, the US Supreme Court just ruled a week or so ago that most of Eastern Oklahoma, including Tulsa, lies on an Indian Reservation, pursuant to previous laws and treaties never abrogated.
Stay safe and please wear a mask!
Don, Emma May Hunter, Bonita, Lexie, etc.
Wow, I have to say I read all of these comments with great interest.
You ALL have made great points and I can see truth in every comment. We all have at least one thing in common, we love and serve our country in one way or another, in the military, in intelligence, as a Mom or Dad, or working elsewhere, all jobs being equally contributory to the common good.
Don makes a lot of good truthful points and I don’t see his counter arguments as ego. Emma May Hunter states a lot of good truthful points too.
If everyone in the country was able to digest these points, sure it would cause a lot of heated discussion but be valuable like being back in school.
Who benefits the most from all of the turmoil, riots, killing of people of all colors going on right now in some US cities? Our strategic enemies (China, Russia, Iran) who have agents all over the US and home grown radical groups basing their beliefs and actions on very limited information and a very limited tolerance of any other outside information, even if it is true.
On a personal note, I’m German, Norman, Welsh, Irish, Scandanavian and some Cherokee and a wee little bit of Ashkenazi Jew, according to DNA. We are all a hodgepodge of various ancestry, no one is pure. I had ancestors here since 1620’s and at least some thousands of years before that.
One of the best comments I saw here in this thread is how do we help people that are alive today. How do we do that? Give them a job and education so they can have some pride and pull themselves up from their current condition—-that is one of the great things about America! Do not replace their family structure with a big Government hand out, this from what I’ve seen only destroys the poor families of all colors, I’ve seen it in my own extended family.
thanks, Al
Thank you, Al. I am glad you found the comments of great interest. And thank you for your additions to the discussion.
Stay safe!
Al, my ancestors arrived in America in the 1630s! Maybe we are related. Just kidding. Arrived in Massachusetts and eventually settled in Rhode Island.
Is there a listing by cemetery of veterans buried there?
For the Indian Wars, “Battle of Fallen Timbers”.
George Purtee/Parted/Pertee was wounded in the leg, but lived until he died in
1808, Peebles Ohio. He is buried on their family farm and several of us Purtee cousins
were able to go to the cemetery. I have some pictures of the 3 broken tombstones in the
cemetery. It is on a knoll and you can see the surrounding area and have cool weather even
in the heat of summer. If you have any records on this war actions I would appreciate copies
to put in my Ancestry Family Tree Maker database.
Lexie,
We could very well be related, one branch of my ancestors came into Massachusetts and another into Jamestown, VA.
Al
Arrived 1632 on the ship called, The James.
Oops, sorry 1636
“[E]rasing history” is a political talking point or bumper sticker, not a real thing.” Huh? Removing a name, erasing words, burning a book, altering information, even adding words, and the many variants of each are the real thing, not just political talking points (which themselves have a form or reality). Whether done offensively, conveniently, innocently, openly, covertly, or with or without intent, malice, or for generally acceptable reasons, it is still real. No, I am not suggesting the preservation of every thing ever done, but wanton (or automatic) destruction of the way things were feels so very wrong, and attempting to automatically justify it may be even more so.
Oh Don, Don, Don. I envy you as I don’t have your amount of free time to sit on the computer and pontificate.
How can you accuse me of disrespecting any person, even you, who has served our country in any capacity. The people I lose respect for are the pompous ones that can’t seem to stop bragging about it. You also stated that I ACCUSED you of being an ancestry employee when, in fact, I merely asked you if were so employed. Big difference, dude.
Another thing you have accused me of is offering a hollow thank you to Cynthia for her service which couldn’t be further from the truth. You obviously believe that you not only can read my mind, but also my heart. Your arrogance astounds me.
As to my service, I followed my father who served as a bomb sighter in the Army Air Corps and is now resting in Arlington National. I joined the US Air Force following my graduation from college and served my president and country for 20 years, but I don’t like to brag.
I’m an adult so please do not patronize me by telling me to wear a mask and stay safe. I have been self-quarantining since February.
Hitler burned the books. We simple just don’t teach the history . Another point of interest that I am sure that Mr. Don will poohoo. The Civil War was not originally about Slavery. It was about STATE’S RIGHTS. Weather you want to believe it or not. The Federal Government was telling the Southern States what they could do or what they couldn’t do, gee sound familiar? My mother used to tell me that if you don’t know your history you will be bond to repeat it. Well I guess our government doesn’t know their own history. Federal Government is again telling states what their rights are over and over again. Abraham Lincoln was who made it all about the Slaves after the war had started. He had to find a sympathic reason for rallying the public for the war. Remember the south fired that first shot, not the other way around.
Mr. Don I don’t care how many books you want to quote that were written by the men from the South you certainly will not hear them being taught in any of our schools high school and certainly NOT , no never ever, in the Liberal Universities. Students who go into the universities and colleges today come out as Liberal Zoombies. By the way I don’t have to wear a mask if I don’t want to. Just another way that our government is taking our rights away. They shut this whole country down in a week. What right do they have? What right do they have to tell me I can’t go to my church on my designated day of worship to praise my God? THEY DON’T!!!!!!!! They have once again over step their boundaries. They have forgotten that they work for us not the other way around. George Washington said, “When government takes away citizens’ right to bear arms it becomes citizens’ duty to take away government’s right to govern” and Benjamin Franklin said, “Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve either one, and will lose both.”
Have a Happy Day,
By the way Mr. Don. You forgot to address my #4 from the earlier comment. What’s the matter, cat got your tongue? 4. The slaves were being sold to the ship’s captain by their own Black Africans. Two tribes would fight in Africa and the winning tribe would take the loosing tribe to the docks to be loaded on to the ship, so if anyone needs to apologize for sending them off to slavery it is their own people.
I represent an African American Genealogy Society who have the following questions: Where are the names and/or photographs of the African American Veterans and their burials? We have several that served in WWI, WWII. This is our second request without a response.
I tried your subscription earlier and then cancelled because there was limited information on African American veterans, especially for Civil War veterans
Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery is also a military cemetery, too. It is the second largest military graveyard where fallen soldiers and deceased veterans are buried at. This cemetery is located in Joliet, Elwood, Illinois which is near Chicago.
I am looking for my grestgrandfather who fought in the American Civil War for the Union. he was from New York. His name is Richard Skerritt, DOB 1818 in Port Arlington, Ireland, DOD 12-21-1891 in Carterville, NY, buried in Amboy CenterCemetery, Oswego county, NY. I would like more information on him.